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Associated costs and parts for setting up a GReddy turbo kit

Jason
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:45 pm
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Site Admin Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 184 Location: North America
Traditional bolt-ons do close to nothing for the car because it was so well tuned out of the factory. For example, cold air intakes can give you ~3 hp, aftermarket catbacks can give you 2-5 hp. Depending on what product you buy, the bolt-ons can even lower the amount of power your car puts down. Buying cheap crap from eBay is not recommended. To sum it up, you can expect to gain in the neighborhood of 20-30 hp with all imaginable bolt-ons. The cost is staggering for what you get in return.

While there are several turbo and supercharger kits "coming soon", the only one that currently has a wide install base is the GReddy RX-8 turbo kit. MSRP is in the 4k range. You can usually buy it for just over 3k.



You get everything you need to bolt the turbo and get moving. The problem with the RX-8 is that the car's computer (ECU) controls a LOT of things, and can't be easily replaced with a stand alone. Using the emanage blue has had many problems because of long term fuel trim (LTFT) making adjustments and "correcting" the changes made by the blue unit. There's been a number of fixes by members of the rx8club website, but honestly, it is not up to the job.

In recent days, GReddy has tried to address the issues with emanage blue by spending several months of R&D to take their newer unit, the emanage ultimate, and make it functional for the RX-8. The Ultimate can now force the car into open loop at will (Using the NVCS map), and can then adjust fuel injection directly, instead of trying to alter fuel by tricking the car into seeing less or more air. The Ultimate is now shipped with every GReddy turbo kit for the RX-8. Additionally, they offer a $600 upgrade kit for anyone who had the older blue kit.

The ultimate choice for fuel management is the Cobb AccessPort. It's a reflasher that changes how your car controls fuel directly instead of having a piggy back system. This means one less point of failure AND you can use your factory PCM, which is by far more advanced than any piggyback you can slap on the vehicle. MSRP is only $699.


The first thing someone wants to know when they start researching into getting a turbo on the RX-8, is what do I need to buy, and what is it going to cost me?

These are rough estimates for pricing (since prices change on a daily basis):

1. GReddy turbo kit (MAZDA RX-8 2003-on, 6-spd only, Turbo T618Z, Cast Manifold, intercooler type31). Cost is in the neighborhood of $3200 - 3500. REQUIRED.

2. The reducers/couplers/hoses that ship with the GReddy turbo are very poor quality. Many members have reported them cracking and breaking apart. It's even happened to me.. I recommend doing it right from the start, and upgrading them. New hoses will run about $100. Good thread about it here. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

3. BOV (set to recirculate) or bypass valve. The pressure built up by the turbo needs to be released when you shift, or it will cause backpressure on the turbo. To do that, you'll need a BOV and have it set to release the air back into the car. If you later change the Ultimate (Or use the Int-x) to run MAP based (instead of MAF), you can set the BOV to vent to atmosphere. The problem with atmosphere and MAF is that the car sees X amount of air incoming, if you suddenly release it, the car doesn't know and still injects the same amount of fuel. Causing the car to run really rich. Most BOVs cost around $200. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

4. Boost controller. The boost controller will give you better control over your boost, lower turbo lag, and can build pressure faster. It can also prevent you from over boosting, and save your engine from detonation, or even blowing. It's a good thing, though not required. The GReddy Profec B Spec 2 runs about $300. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

5. Fuel management. There aren't a lot of people using the Ultimate right now. I highly recommend looking at the AccessPort. MazdaManiac offers premade maps that can work for NA or FI purposes. $699. OPTIONAL

6. Gauges. You'll want to monitor at a bare minimum your AFR (air fuel ratio). When on boost, your AFR should be less than 12 (I'm making general statements here, your application may differ), without a gauge to see, you could be running too lean and could destroy your engine. The AFR can also tell you if your system has other problems, such as a vacuum leak. I also recommend a boost gauge. It will let you know how much boost the engine is getting, if you're unable to maintain boost, and if you're overboosting. Also nice to have is an EGT gauge (reads exhaust temps), oil pressure, water temp, etc. The AFR gauge (wideband) will run about $300 (I use the AEM UEGO). Boost will run about $200 (I use GReddy's boost gauge). For $450 you can get racing beat's ash tray pod which tells you coolant and oil temp, plus oil pressure. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

7. If you're sticking with the Ultimate, you'll want to get your wideband (AFR) readings to it. You'll have to buy a $20 A/F harness and splice in. OPTIONAL

8. Exhaust upgrades. The turbo sits between your engine and the exhaust. It is basically a fan that the exhaust is spinning. This means your exhaust has a harder path to exit the car. So anything you can do to help the exhaust will give you more power. An aftermarket catback is a good thing to have. The stock one is so heavy and restrictive that you can barely hear it when the car has afterburn (backfire). Another option is to remove the catalytic converter (cat) and replace it with a catless midpipe, or a high flow midpipe. This is usually illegal, as you're not allowed to change emissions hardware unless it's broken. So if you really want a catless midpipe, chances are, you'll have to do the install yourself. Don't worry - because the turbo is disrupting the flow of the exhaust, your car will not be super loud with a catless midpipe and aftermarket exhaust. Midpipe pricing is about $300, catback usually runs $600. Try to get pipes that are 3", it will flow better than 2.5" and your gains will be larger. OPTIONAL

9. Spark plugs. You'll want to run colder plugs on your turbo. The stock plugs run about $35 each and are too hot for this application. It's recommended that you get the NGK-5255 plugs. You'll need four. Figure $50 for a set. RECOMMENDED

10. Install costs. You can do the install yourself. Estimates using jackstands range from 2 to 4 days. If you get a shop to do the install, expect to pay $800 - 1200. RECOMMENDED

11. Oil change. If you tap the oil pan for the turbo return line, you'll need to refill your car with oil. Even if you do not tap the oil pan, you'll need to then plug the turbo oil return into the oil pan drain hole, which means an oil change too. $30 REQUIRED

12. Switch to synthetic oil. Redline or Royal Purple are brands people trust for rotaries. Go with a 5w30 or 10w30 weight oil. It will help in the longevity of the turbo's oil seals.

13. Fix #2. (install a vacuum nipple in the outlet pipe of the turbo and plumb a line to the wastegate). This doesn't cost you anything (make sure the shop that installs your turbo does it), but is something you should not skip. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

14. GReddy oil pan upgrade. This adds about a half quart of oil and acts like a heat sink under the car (It has fins to help cool down). The best thing about this pan is it has two oil drains, so you can perm plug in your turbo oil return in one, then use a quick drain plug in the other. This setup allows you to change your oil in a matter of minutes. $250 RECOMMENDED

As you can see, you can get your RX-8 turbocharged for as little as $3000, or as much as $8000+.

This is not meant to be an end all, be all listing. It's just a quick checklist for what items you should consider getting.


Last edited by Jason on Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:14 am; edited 6 times in total
Jason
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:55 pm
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Site Admin Joined: 30 Oct 2006 Posts: 184 Location: North America
Misc other items you might be interested in.


* Oil filters, try out Purolator PL14612 PureONE Oil Filter. You can get them for under $7 each.
* FRAM SURE DRAIN OIL CHANGE SYSTEM PLUG M14x1.5 SD-2, allows you to quickly change your oil. $10.

If you get tired of your 280 whp from the greddy kit at 11 psi, you can swap out the turbo for a GT3071R: http://mazdamaniac.com/upgrade/MazdaManiac%20GReddy%20Upgrade.html

You'll be able to make 380 whp or more with it, but make sure you upgrade your fuel injectors or you'll not go over 300 whp with the stock setup.


Last edited by Jason on Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
Dalton
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:22 am
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 3 Location: Tallinn, Estonia
Jason wrote:

5. Fuel management. There aren't a lot of people using the Ultimate right now. If you don't want to be among the first, you'll want to get the interceptor-x instead. $1600. We know it will do the job right, and it can handle a lot of power. While the initial cost is high, keep in mind you can sell the Ultimate (that came with your kit) and the included pressure sensor to recoup some of the investment. OPTIONAL



Hello Jason

Do you get CEL-s with interceptor-x and
does the oem cruise control work with it Question
Jason
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:26 am
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You'll get 2 CELs with the int-x currently. Scott has told me he's working on fixing that issue... meanwhile I use a scangauge2 to read and reset the CELs so that I know if there is a real problem or if it's just the regular "system too rich" cels.

Cruise control works with the new v3 of the int-x, I think the older ones didn't, but I'm not sure since I never owned them.
david8
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:11 am
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All the parts that are listed ^ are all available over the internet? this is a huge help on what to buy. Which computer do you recommend?
Jason
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:01 am
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Having used the emanage blue, emanage ultimate, interceptor-x, and the cobb accessport, I can say the accessport is by far the best choice.

If you get it from MazdaManiac he provides custom tuned maps for you at no charge:

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/cobb/accessport.htm
david8
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:21 pm
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008 Posts: 47
So when I order the kit where do I buy all the new hoses? and I will upgrade to the GT3071R right off the start so I will be stuck with an extra turbo won I?
Jason
Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:23 pm
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I sold my old turbo for $400.
david8
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:41 pm
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IF i buy MIshimoto's universal Intercooler ( http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-universal-intercooler-small.html ) will it work? I bought a universal squire turbo systems remote mount turbo kit.
david8
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:15 pm
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what are the dimensions of the intercooler that the Greddy kit comes with?
kspeed
Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:41 pm
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Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Posts: 1
Jason, I would like to discuss your car. Can you contact me?

Erik

Jason wrote:
Traditional bolt-ons do close to nothing for the car because it was so well tuned out of the factory. For example, cold air intakes can give you ~3 hp, aftermarket catbacks can give you 2-5 hp. Depending on what product you buy, the bolt-ons can even lower the amount of power your car puts down. Buying cheap crap from eBay is not recommended. To sum it up, you can expect to gain in the neighborhood of 20-30 hp with all imaginable bolt-ons. The cost is staggering for what you get in return.

While there are several turbo and supercharger kits "coming soon", the only one that currently has a wide install base is the GReddy RX-8 turbo kit. MSRP is in the 4k range. You can usually buy it for just over 3k.



You get everything you need to bolt the turbo and get moving. The problem with the RX-8 is that the car's computer (ECU) controls a LOT of things, and can't be easily replaced with a stand alone. Using the emanage blue has had many problems because of long term fuel trim (LTFT) making adjustments and "correcting" the changes made by the blue unit. There's been a number of fixes by members of the rx8club website, but honestly, it is not up to the job.

In recent days, GReddy has tried to address the issues with emanage blue by spending several months of R&D to take their newer unit, the emanage ultimate, and make it functional for the RX-8. The Ultimate can now force the car into open loop at will (Using the NVCS map), and can then adjust fuel injection directly, instead of trying to alter fuel by tricking the car into seeing less or more air. The Ultimate is now shipped with every GReddy turbo kit for the RX-8. Additionally, they offer a $600 upgrade kit for anyone who had the older blue kit.

The ultimate choice for fuel management is the Cobb AccessPort. It's a reflasher that changes how your car controls fuel directly instead of having a piggy back system. This means one less point of failure AND you can use your factory PCM, which is by far more advanced than any piggyback you can slap on the vehicle. MSRP is only $699.


The first thing someone wants to know when they start researching into getting a turbo on the RX-8, is what do I need to buy, and what is it going to cost me?

These are rough estimates for pricing (since prices change on a daily basis):

1. GReddy turbo kit (MAZDA RX-8 2003-on, 6-spd only, Turbo T618Z, Cast Manifold, intercooler type31). Cost is in the neighborhood of $3200 - 3500. REQUIRED.

2. The reducers/couplers/hoses that ship with the GReddy turbo are very poor quality. Many members have reported them cracking and breaking apart. It's even happened to me.. I recommend doing it right from the start, and upgrading them. New hoses will run about $100. Good thread about it here. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

3. BOV (set to recirculate) or bypass valve. The pressure built up by the turbo needs to be released when you shift, or it will cause backpressure on the turbo. To do that, you'll need a BOV and have it set to release the air back into the car. If you later change the Ultimate (Or use the Int-x) to run MAP based (instead of MAF), you can set the BOV to vent to atmosphere. The problem with atmosphere and MAF is that the car sees X amount of air incoming, if you suddenly release it, the car doesn't know and still injects the same amount of fuel. Causing the car to run really rich. Most BOVs cost around $200. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

4. Boost controller. The boost controller will give you better control over your boost, lower turbo lag, and can build pressure faster. It can also prevent you from over boosting, and save your engine from detonation, or even blowing. It's a good thing, though not required. The GReddy Profec B Spec 2 runs about $300. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

5. Fuel management. There aren't a lot of people using the Ultimate right now. I highly recommend looking at the AccessPort. MazdaManiac offers premade maps that can work for NA or FI purposes. $699. OPTIONAL

6. Gauges. You'll want to monitor at a bare minimum your AFR (air fuel ratio). When on boost, your AFR should be less than 12 (I'm making general statements here, your application may differ), without a gauge to see, you could be running too lean and could destroy your engine. The AFR can also tell you if your system has other problems, such as a vacuum leak. I also recommend a boost gauge. It will let you know how much boost the engine is getting, if you're unable to maintain boost, and if you're overboosting. Also nice to have is an EGT gauge (reads exhaust temps), oil pressure, water temp, etc. The AFR gauge (wideband) will run about $300 (I use the AEM UEGO). Boost will run about $200 (I use GReddy's boost gauge). For $450 you can get racing beat's ash tray pod which tells you coolant and oil temp, plus oil pressure. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

7. If you're sticking with the Ultimate, you'll want to get your wideband (AFR) readings to it. You'll have to buy a $20 A/F harness and splice in. OPTIONAL

8. Exhaust upgrades. The turbo sits between your engine and the exhaust. It is basically a fan that the exhaust is spinning. This means your exhaust has a harder path to exit the car. So anything you can do to help the exhaust will give you more power. An aftermarket catback is a good thing to have. The stock one is so heavy and restrictive that you can barely hear it when the car has afterburn (backfire). Another option is to remove the catalytic converter (cat) and replace it with a catless midpipe, or a high flow midpipe. This is usually illegal, as you're not allowed to change emissions hardware unless it's broken. So if you really want a catless midpipe, chances are, you'll have to do the install yourself. Don't worry - because the turbo is disrupting the flow of the exhaust, your car will not be super loud with a catless midpipe and aftermarket exhaust. Midpipe pricing is about $300, catback usually runs $600. Try to get pipes that are 3", it will flow better than 2.5" and your gains will be larger. OPTIONAL

9. Spark plugs. You'll want to run colder plugs on your turbo. The stock plugs run about $35 each and are too hot for this application. It's recommended that you get the NGK-5255 plugs. You'll need four. Figure $50 for a set. RECOMMENDED

10. Install costs. You can do the install yourself. Estimates using jackstands range from 2 to 4 days. If you get a shop to do the install, expect to pay $800 - 1200. RECOMMENDED

11. Oil change. If you tap the oil pan for the turbo return line, you'll need to refill your car with oil. Even if you do not tap the oil pan, you'll need to then plug the turbo oil return into the oil pan drain hole, which means an oil change too. $30 REQUIRED

12. Switch to synthetic oil. Redline or Royal Purple are brands people trust for rotaries. Go with a 5w30 or 10w30 weight oil. It will help in the longevity of the turbo's oil seals.

13. Fix #2. (install a vacuum nipple in the outlet pipe of the turbo and plumb a line to the wastegate). This doesn't cost you anything (make sure the shop that installs your turbo does it), but is something you should not skip. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

14. GReddy oil pan upgrade. This adds about a half quart of oil and acts like a heat sink under the car (It has fins to help cool down). The best thing about this pan is it has two oil drains, so you can perm plug in your turbo oil return in one, then use a quick drain plug in the other. This setup allows you to change your oil in a matter of minutes. $250 RECOMMENDED

As you can see, you can get your RX-8 turbocharged for as little as $3000, or as much as $8000+.

This is not meant to be an end all, be all listing. It's just a quick checklist for what items you should consider getting.
david8
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:55 pm
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Joined: 17 Jul 2008 Posts: 47
what size of injectors is an apropriate upgrade for a turbo system?

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